When a dwarf is born

mijke · 08-02-2010, 18:20

Pituitary dwarfism exists also in CsW breed and we know several dwarfs in different countries from different lines.

In other topics on wolfdog I did give info about this disease and the possibility of a test for pituitary dwarfism. http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10756

When a CsW is carrier it is not any problem, this dog will not get pituitary dwarfism.
You also can breed without problems, you only have to make a combination with a Free dog and no dwarfs will be born.

But because yet only a few CsW's are tested, still dwarfs will be born.
So I also will give some info for owners and breeders of dwarfs.

When a dwarf is born an owner/breeder can think about a few options:

Keep it yourself without treatment
Keep it yourself with treatment (and you have to find a university or well specialized vet who can measure hormone values and who has the possibility to give thyroxine and p GH)
Euthanize the dwarf in the country of your own when the dwarf becomes ill and suffers
Euthanize the dwarf in Holland (The university did ask me to tell you all this option too).
Adoption in Holland by the new Dutch Dwarfism Foundation where a dwarf can get treatment

About medication for a dwarf:
Any defect in the development of the pituitary gland causes a lack in producing hormones. And most dogs with pituitary dwarfism has a lack of these hormones GH, TSH, PRL, FSH, LH, ACTH.
That is why a dog with Pituitary Dwarfism have to be treated with a combination of GH (grow hormone) and thyroid hormone.
But it is not possible to treat a dwarf with canine GH, because it is not available for medical use.

But porcine GH (of pigs) is identical to canine GH, and a good alternative for treatment.
I don't know if porcine GH is available in other countries

About dwarfs without treatment:
Some dwarfs without treatment can become between 4 and 5 year old. But there is a huge individual difference.
Because some dwarfs still produces a bit of GH of their own!
And their prognoses also it depends of how their kidneys were developed because of this.
Because the progression of kidney failure is also important for the age a dwarf can reach.
The Dutch university did even know a dwarf that did become 10 years old without treatment, because his kidneys did function (because of his own producing of GH) His only problems were bold skin and skin inflammation.
So nobody can ever predict what age an individual dwarf can reach.

About treatment:
The Dutch university knows after years of research that giving a combination of thyroid hormone in combination with porcine pGH is giving good results.
With giving the pGH in the first year they stimulate the kidneys of a dwarf to develop in a normal way.
They did find out that start with giving pGH after the first year did not have any results and influence on the kidneys anymore.
And when the kidneys did not develop (and grow)the first year in the right way, this cannot be treated anymore with medicines. (The lack of development of kidneys causes a lot of problems for dwarfs)
So the Dutch university only starts with treating very young dwarfs with giving pGH in combination with thyorid hormone.

About the research:
The Dutch university is still doing research about treatment and the development of the dwarfs. And so they treat dwarfs of some breeds on this moment.
But for their research they also need pituitary's of dwarfs, so they can do more investigation of the dwarf process and see what is exactly going wrong in the pituitary.
And this research of pituitary's can be a great help for dwarfs (and human) in future.
And that is why they did ask me to ask all owners of dwarfs to help them also with this research.
So when you dwarf is very ill and you have to make sad decisions or consider to euthanatize, please contact me!
And we can also speak about the possibilities to euthanatize in the Dutch university (because then your dwarf can also be great help for other dwarfs)

About adoption and treatment in Holland
Last month the Dutch Dwarf foundation "Saartje" was founded. This foundations will give info about dwarfism in dog breeds and the possibility of testing.
Besides this they also offer dwarf dogs a new home and treatment.
So an owner of a dwarf can donate the dwarf for free to the foundation. And the foundation will become the new owner of the dwarf and will take care for treatment and will pay for this.

I hope I could help dwarf owners/breeders a bit with all this info

When you still have questions, just contact me! [email protected]

sciamalaia · 08-02-2010, 18:28

Thank you Mijke for this Thread.

Hanka · 09-02-2010, 14:43

If somebody can translate it to poland or other language, be so friendly, please.

wolfin · 09-02-2010, 17:46

I think polish people can read english

without problem

like and others who interesing too.

mijke · 09-02-2010, 19:05

I wish this was true!

)))

But not everybody is as language smart as you!

Also in my country a lot of people don't understand and can't read English!

So a lot of time I translate for some people topics of the English forum

wolfin · 09-02-2010, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by mijke

I wish this was true!

)))

But not everybody is as language smart as you!

Also in my country a lot of people don't understand and can't read English!

So a lot of time I translate for some people topics of the English forum

I know, who interesing about this, can used translator or search moore info in google.
We have only 5 or 6 thema, only in english forum about dwarf, I think now all people in WD know who this is.
p.s. Mijke You are great

only maybe better all info have in one thema not in 5 or 6?

koboldine · 11-02-2010, 13:06

Thanks Mijke - I think it is important to breeder/owner to see that there is help available. And - even if it becomes necessary to lay the dog down - it may help others as well.

yukidomari · 08-02-2011, 02:44

Hello Mijke & Martiou,

I had a question about dwarf CsV. I read this thread and also the other thread "Pituitary Dwarfism test for CsW is available!" about Dwarfism, and I saw that there were some other associated conditions such fur or skin problems, kidney and liver problems, etc.

I have read in passing before that pituitary dwarfism may also affect behavior or mental development, and was wondering if you can provide input on this from your experiences.

Thank you!!

Best regards,

Jing

Hanka · 08-02-2011, 08:52

Hello Jing, the dwarf dog is absolutly normal in thinkink. No different between dwarf and normal dogs.

André · 08-02-2011, 12:11

After his birth, when is possible to detect a dog is a dwarf? How many weeks/months to be sure?

Hanka · 08-02-2011, 12:40

I see it usually on puppy in age 3 weeks. But it depends on photos......

martiou07 · 08-02-2011, 13:07

For me it is very new as my small has 2 months 1/2. What I can say to you for moment, during weaning it was slower than the others, openings of the eyes later, slower in its displacements, an evolution slower than the others of the range…

All this corresponds so that Mijke had indicated to us when I contacted she to know if our small were really a dwarf or then a pup having simply a delay of growth…

Now it is rather sharp all the same, but forcing in connection with its size much less turbulent qu' a pup " normal"

and obviously, he is now the good playmate of my daughters, considering his size, much less abrupt than my adults.

of character, in remainder not less one worthy representing of the race, but in miniature version

the question, how it is known if there is a dwarf pup or not, a question that forcing I was posed, for my part, I had announced my doubt with Margo and Daiva as of it had 1 week, but with this old there, it is too early to decide with certainty. I compared curves of weight made by friends stockbreeders in France. This always did not confirm anything to me…. And like Margo had said, I have had to await its 1 month approximately front to be on….

Here, approximately 1 month 1/2 with is brother Falco.

André · 08-02-2011, 13:29

Thanks for your replies. By this photo we can tell that at 6 weeks it's already clear.
That would be interesting to see a weight table in comparison with a normal brother

08-02-2010, 18:20	#1
mijke Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Warnsveld Posts: 2,033	When a dwarf is born Pituitary dwarfism exists also in CsW breed and we know several dwarfs in different countries from different lines. In other topics on wolfdog I did give info about this disease and the possibility of a test for pituitary dwarfism. http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10756 When a CsW is carrier it is not any problem, this dog will not get pituitary dwarfism. You also can breed without problems, you only have to make a combination with a Free dog and no dwarfs will be born. But because yet only a few CsW's are tested, still dwarfs will be born. So I also will give some info for owners and breeders of dwarfs. When a dwarf is born an owner/breeder can think about a few options: Keep it yourself without treatment Keep it yourself with treatment (and you have to find a university or well specialized vet who can measure hormone values and who has the possibility to give thyroxine and p GH) Euthanize the dwarf in the country of your own when the dwarf becomes ill and suffers Euthanize the dwarf in Holland (The university did ask me to tell you all this option too). Adoption in Holland by the new Dutch Dwarfism Foundation where a dwarf can get treatment About medication for a dwarf: Any defect in the development of the pituitary gland causes a lack in producing hormones. And most dogs with pituitary dwarfism has a lack of these hormones GH, TSH, PRL, FSH, LH, ACTH. That is why a dog with Pituitary Dwarfism have to be treated with a combination of GH (grow hormone) and thyroid hormone. But it is not possible to treat a dwarf with canine GH, because it is not available for medical use. But porcine GH (of pigs) is identical to canine GH, and a good alternative for treatment. I don't know if porcine GH is available in other countries About dwarfs without treatment: Some dwarfs without treatment can become between 4 and 5 year old. But there is a huge individual difference. Because some dwarfs still produces a bit of GH of their own! And their prognoses also it depends of how their kidneys were developed because of this. Because the progression of kidney failure is also important for the age a dwarf can reach. The Dutch university did even know a dwarf that did become 10 years old without treatment, because his kidneys did function (because of his own producing of GH) His only problems were bold skin and skin inflammation. So nobody can ever predict what age an individual dwarf can reach. About treatment: The Dutch university knows after years of research that giving a combination of thyroid hormone in combination with porcine pGH is giving good results. With giving the pGH in the first year they stimulate the kidneys of a dwarf to develop in a normal way. They did find out that start with giving pGH after the first year did not have any results and influence on the kidneys anymore. And when the kidneys did not develop (and grow)the first year in the right way, this cannot be treated anymore with medicines. (The lack of development of kidneys causes a lot of problems for dwarfs) So the Dutch university only starts with treating very young dwarfs with giving pGH in combination with thyorid hormone. About the research: The Dutch university is still doing research about treatment and the development of the dwarfs. And so they treat dwarfs of some breeds on this moment. But for their research they also need pituitary's of dwarfs, so they can do more investigation of the dwarf process and see what is exactly going wrong in the pituitary. And this research of pituitary's can be a great help for dwarfs (and human) in future. And that is why they did ask me to ask all owners of dwarfs to help them also with this research. So when you dwarf is very ill and you have to make sad decisions or consider to euthanatize, please contact me! And we can also speak about the possibilities to euthanatize in the Dutch university (because then your dwarf can also be great help for other dwarfs) About adoption and treatment in Holland Last month the Dutch Dwarf foundation "Saartje" was founded. This foundations will give info about dwarfism in dog breeds and the possibility of testing. Besides this they also offer dwarf dogs a new home and treatment. So an owner of a dwarf can donate the dwarf for free to the foundation. And the foundation will become the new owner of the dwarf and will take care for treatment and will pay for this. I hope I could help dwarf owners/breeders a bit with all this info When you still have questions, just contact me! [email protected] __________________ Vriendelijke groeten, Mijke PS: I am not a moderator anymore!! Last edited by mijke; 08-02-2010 at 21:22.

09-02-2010, 14:43	#3
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	If somebody can translate it to poland or other language, be so friendly, please. Last edited by Hanka; 09-02-2010 at 15:01.

09-02-2010, 17:46	#4
wolfin Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Where the wolf lives Posts: 6,095	I think polish people can read english without problem like and others who interesing too. __________________

09-02-2010, 19:05	#5
mijke Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Warnsveld Posts: 2,033	I wish this was true! ))) But not everybody is as language smart as you! Also in my country a lot of people don't understand and can't read English! So a lot of time I translate for some people topics of the English forum __________________ Vriendelijke groeten, Mijke PS: I am not a moderator anymore!!

11-02-2010, 13:06	#7
koboldine Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 472	Thanks Mijke - I think it is important to breeder/owner to see that there is help available. And - even if it becomes necessary to lay the dog down - it may help others as well. __________________ Kein Mensch darf mir meine Schwächen so deutlich zeigen, wie meine (Wolfs-)Hunde es tun.

08-02-2010, 18:28	#2
sciamalaia Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Mestre Posts: 2,300	Thank you Mijke for this Thread.

08-02-2011, 02:44	#8
yukidomari Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 847	Hello Mijke & Martiou, I had a question about dwarf CsV. I read this thread and also the other thread "Pituitary Dwarfism test for CsW is available!" about Dwarfism, and I saw that there were some other associated conditions such fur or skin problems, kidney and liver problems, etc. I have read in passing before that pituitary dwarfism may also affect behavior or mental development, and was wondering if you can provide input on this from your experiences. Thank you!! Best regards, Jing

08-02-2011, 08:52	#9
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	Hello Jing, the dwarf dog is absolutly normal in thinkink. No different between dwarf and normal dogs.

08-02-2011, 12:11	#10
André Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 76	After his birth, when is possible to detect a dog is a dwarf? How many weeks/months to be sure?

08-02-2011, 12:40	#11
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	I see it usually on puppy in age 3 weeks. But it depends on photos......

08-02-2011, 13:07	#12
martiou07 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: France Posts: 1,986	For me it is very new as my small has 2 months 1/2. What I can say to you for moment, during weaning it was slower than the others, openings of the eyes later, slower in its displacements, an evolution slower than the others of the range… All this corresponds so that Mijke had indicated to us when I contacted she to know if our small were really a dwarf or then a pup having simply a delay of growth… Now it is rather sharp all the same, but forcing in connection with its size much less turbulent qu' a pup " normal" and obviously, he is now the good playmate of my daughters, considering his size, much less abrupt than my adults. of character, in remainder not less one worthy representing of the race, but in miniature version the question, how it is known if there is a dwarf pup or not, a question that forcing I was posed, for my part, I had announced my doubt with Margo and Daiva as of it had 1 week, but with this old there, it is too early to decide with certainty. I compared curves of weight made by friends stockbreeders in France. This always did not confirm anything to me…. And like Margo had said, I have had to await its 1 month approximately front to be on…. Here, approximately 1 month 1/2 with is brother Falco. __________________ Last edited by martiou07; 08-02-2011 at 13:10.

08-02-2011, 13:29	#13
André Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 76	Thanks for your replies. By this photo we can tell that at 6 weeks it's already clear. That would be interesting to see a weight table in comparison with a normal brother